Again you guys are great for helping out! We are changing the panel Monday. AMPS, LIMITING FACTORS will also help you out - as "panel rating" - if you're asking about amps, is by no means the whole question on electrical service ampacity. Some Zinsco / Zinsco-Sylvania GFCIs follow the color conventions we show above, But others do not. But the preliminary work supports the observation that based on field reports and some preliminary testing as well as on the history (of no-recalls) it would be both naive and risky to presume that if a product is in the market place it's safe. For people who are too poor to make their homes safer by replacing questionable electrical equipment we suggest some initial or temporary hazard reduction measures: I was reading information on your website about Zinsco panels but I can't determine if my main panel and sub-panel inside the house are the affected panels. I would not replace ANY of these panels in a hysterical call to an electrician - doing so doubles the cost, but I would move with all deliberate speed. Moving the panel to meet electrical codes. "How to plan and install electric wiring for homes, farms, garages, shops," Montgomery Ward Co., 83-850. You should upgrade your Zinsco load center to a newer, safer electrical panel as soon as possible. Be the first to rate this post. Below are links to pictures of my electrical panel. Apologies for the delay. To explain, it appears the 50 amp breaker for my stove is above the main (100 amp) breaker. So don't assume that all-black breakers can be excluded from this unsafe Zinsco circuit breaker group. - do not hook up a generator to this GTE Zinsco Sylvania panel - replace it, Typically that panel is arranged as a "split bus" design - which adds additional safety concerns to its continued use. That would be useful additional information to document. at the best online prices at eBay! Connecticut Electric offers Zinsco breaker replacements. It does day Sylvania and has what I assume is the model number: Im copying other Langstaff & Sloan Inc. staff in case they have any additional thoughts. On 2021-08-21 Most of the Zinsco electrical panels and circuit breakers were installed in the 1960s and 1970s. They were legal during the installation and are still legal according to the standard in place at the time of installation. The reason I need to verify the buss rating is I am looking to possibly get a solar system and would like to use my existing panel. History of the Challenger Panel. Without more investigation of the breakers, panel bus, and circuit involved one cannot say for certain if this arc-flash damage was due to a defect in the circuit breaker, panel bus, connections, or some other issue. Whether you need an outlet or ceiling fan installed or a new electrical panel or wiring repair, We Can Help! Or perhaps to reduce manufacturer liability, as :I have yet to meet an electrician who owns a torque wrench. The Zinsco panel exterior is shown above and in close-up below. So, what breakers are compatible with Zinsco? ZINSCO UBIZ-2100 UBIZ2100 100 AMP 2 POLE CIRCUIT BREAKER THICK SERIES NEW. (Zinsco electrical panel photo below), 3. Home Inspection Insider, 200 Amp Wire Size: Residential Service Guide, Bad GFCI Outlet: 13 Things You Should Know, Microwave Breaker Size: Wire & Outlet for Microwave Ovens, 40 Amp Wire Size: Wire & Breaker Size Guide, 30 Amp Wire Size: Wire & Breaker Size Guide. The replacements for zinsco do not make the 35 amp any more. An interlock arrangement insures that the cam element can not be removed without the breaker being automatically tripped. Above: Sylvania electrical panel Catalog No. 400 amps - $2,300 to $4,200. It appears to be less than 10 years old, but with some older breakers in it.still the main should have tripped. On the other hand, most other panels are usually black and arranged in two rows. Some of these such as FPE involved outright fraud by people who knew perfectly well that the product did not perform properly. As a result, this made their breakers extremely popular.if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[468,60],'homeinspectioninsider_com-medrectangle-3','ezslot_0',835,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-homeinspectioninsider_com-medrectangle-3-0'); In 1973, Zinsco was sold to GTE Sylvania. c The panel label specifically says to use Zinsco circuit breakers. There is live voltage in the panel interior - you could be shocked or killed. Thank you so much for your help. Thanks! Thank you for your information. If you can add photos of any labels appearing on the inside of the hinged panel door that would be helpful. by inspectapedia.com.moderator (mod). GTE Sylvania Circuit Breakers Type Q, QC, QFP, R38, RC38, & HRGF. It appears that the present Unicorn Industries has nothing to do with the old meter base in your photo; the current Unicorn describes themselves: Estimating Electrical Panel Age In any case, I would replace this electrical panel. - Editor. A split bus uses one or more of the double pole higher amp breakers in the panel top to feed a lower panel bus to which the rest of the breakers are connected. "Simplified Electrical Wiring," Sears, Roebuck and Co., 15705 (F5428) Rev. But in my OPINION this is an unsafe situation: it's not a great idea to include fire-kindling inside of an electrical panel! Ways to Remove a Zinsco Breaker Prepare the Following Tools 1. "Evaluating Wiring in Older Minnesota Homes," Agricultural Extension Service, University of Minnesota, St. Paul, Minnesota 55108. Try the search box just below, or if you prefer, post a question or comment in the Comments box below and we will respond promptly. as providing "information systems for the European energy industry and utilities. " I also Googled Images for Federal Pacific Electric Panels, and the photos of burned out panels were horrifying. Zinsco electrical panels were distributed in the United States, primarily in the Western states. No. 200 amps - $1,300 to $2,600. circuit breakers, electrical panels, including They don't want to do anything about it, because their hearing starts at about 12kHz, but I hear it all over I house. Instructor- Fundamentals of Home Inspection- Bellingham Technical College. Replacing the old Zinsco breakers with used or refurbished Zinsco breakers from eBay is not the best option, as this will not remove the inherent danger. We have published articles on these other panels in part to solicit field reports & research information. They were once a popular product to have installed in homes. For example we often find burned breaker-to-bus connections that are not visible until the breakers have been removed. Victor [by private email] 10 September 2015. Insurance companies have become increasingly cautious when signing insurance for older properties with FPE or Zinsco installed. SKU:I37023078. 20 March 2015. @Robert shaner, I have a buyer that wants me to put in a new panel because it might be. toggle switch colors and unique labels should be sufficient for most inspectors and owners to identify this equipment. One's the SE with the cover open, next is a close up of the breakers (look at the 125 A main): Here's the 125 A breaker removed: I understand the home is getting a completely new SE panel. Moderator comment: or LK-22 Lug Block for Mains w/ LK-15 - 150 Amps; We also provide an ARTICLE INDEX for this topic, or you can try the page top or bottom SEARCH BOX as a quick way to find information you need. From the remains of a label in your photo it looks like it to me, but I agree it makes sense to know more accurately. Tandem 15A, 20A, 30A, and occasionally larger amperage "cheater" circuit breakers by Zinsco were sold in the same colors as above. It drops a dead short across the circuit and measures trip current and time to trip. The most common amperages are from 15 to 30 amp. Just below, the photo of a recent GTE Sylvania Zinsco circuit breaker burn-up is shown here courtesy of Jeff Weissman and observed, he reports, in a GTE-Sylvania electrical panel. Between the 1980's to the 1990's Challenger panels were installed in hundreds of thousands of homes. Don't be fooled by its lookalike counterparts; this panel is easily distinguishable with its pastel-colored breakers lined up in a single row. I saw this listed as 50A but am doubtful. 1. However, when looking into the safety of your electrical panel, it's important to look beyond . Watch out: replacement circuit breakers that have been tested for these problem brands have generally performed no better than the originals. Watch out: do NOT try to open up your panel nor to remove circuit breakers yourself. Are you able to determine this from the attached pictures? Free shipping for many products! --- He did not know about the Zinsco/Sylvania problem. Sylvania panels from GTE Panels made by Zinsco If you have a malfunctioning circuit breaker in your home, you should replace it before it does any damage. Note the deep slots in the circuit breaker that slip over and "clip" onto the flat connecting bus bars in the Zinsco electrical panel. 112. r/solar. Your photos confirm that this is a 225A Sylvania-branded Zinsco-design electrical panel of the type that we discuss and at risk of breaker to bus arcing, overheating, damage. An electrical panel upgrade is the best option and can often be done in one or two days. Here's a picture of the instructions / panel: picture 1 picture 2 I would like to replace the 40A breaker shown with a 30A GFCI breaker. . For example, the deep slot that cuts up into the side of Zinsco breakers and the "on-edge" bus bars are key details that will reliably identify Zinsco breakers and panels and can be easily seen in an electrical panel. The Challenger panel was installed in thousands of homes between 1980s to 1990s. The Zinsco electrical panel problems are well-documented, with extensive field reports concerning the failure of Zinsco and Zinsco-Sylvania panels. 3. That would argue for an occurrence of the bus-connector defects and hazards we've described. Book your home inspection today by calling 818-298-3405 I cannot see anything of the main breaker in your Zinsco panel so it's ampacity could differ, but the panel label describes a 400Amp panel single phase, 120/240VAC unit. Other Zinsco electrical panel identification and information labels are included in this article. Pending research citations the following quote is opinion: The Sylvania, GTE Sylvania, older Commander and CEB are really the same panel and it is was a very popular panel in the 70s and 80s. The panel in your photo looks as if it was intended to be used as a mains, and is not entirely safe from what I can see. When these panels experience a short circuit or an overcurrent, they often fail to cut the power supply to the affected circuit. Panel info: 20-5X(10-20) C Mod. These are just as prone to safety issues and frequent malfunctions. I found it exceedingly helpful, and think it's worth sharing widely. No. IDENTIFY ZINSCO ELECTRICAL PANELS at InspectApedia.com - online encyclopedia of building & environmental inspection, testing, diagnosis, repair, & problem prevention advice. It is best to avoid buying used Zinsco breakers. I have searched the web and cannot find any of the identifying marks of a Zinsco panel on the panel I have. Federal Pacific Electric panels were produced from the mid-1950s well into the 1980s. Replacing the panel can help improve the electrical systems overall performance and ensure it functions correctly. Turn the Breaker Off then Unscrew the Conductors 3. Zinsco is now defunct, but many homes still have these panels. "Simplified Electrical Wiring," Sears, Roebuck and Co., 15705 (F5428) Rev. What advice can you give me for connecting a generator. Note the panel style and construction details and then see On 2020-12-04 by (mod) Often you will see evidence of arcing or burning at this location. Here we provide text, labels, and equipment photographs used to help identify Zinsco and GTE-Sylvania-Zinsco electrical panels and circuit breakers, and we include photographs of a Zinsco look alike marketed by Kearney. Below is a close-up of the bus connection end of a classic Zinsco circuit breaker - showing the difference between these devices. and I am watching carefully Challenger as well as the others you name. Photographs contributed to this website by Jim P. Simmons, Mr. Electric, Licensed Master Electrician, [Click to enlarge any image] Thanks so much, this is a great service you are providing! the circuit breaker colors and other external details permit the inspector to identify the problem Zinsco-design electrical panel bus and circuit breaker materials. 4-77 1977 [Lots of sketches of older-type service panels.]. According to experts, zinsco panels malfunction for two reasons: Design Flaws Electricians have observed that there are indeed design flaws in the Zinsco circuit breaker panels. 390-205-09 on a label which has the bottom left corner torn off. Rating with LK-15 150 Amps, LK22 225 AMP. Below right: a badly faded Sylvania electrical panel sticker. Is my panel safe . See GTE-SYLVANIA-ZINSCO FAILURE MECHANISM. Third party vendors may produce "zinsco replacement" breakers but testing has shown they perform no more safely than the original ones. - I want to add a 30 amp breaker to the panel to add a portable generator. I agree with that advice, but I acknowledge that the data base of tested Zinsco equipment confirming the failures is smaller than that of the FPE Stab-Lok hazard discussed elsewhere at InspectApedia. The full size is type Q and the two ploes are type QC. If you're interested in more information or details please let me know. In older homes, there are still some electrical panel brands that have been commonly known to fail at safety standards. Some of these design flaws include: Easy corrosion of the bus bar Not sure what amp panel I have either - looks like maybe 150 amp. I am wondering if there is a way to tell if this is a Zinsco brand. Join. 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